Sylvain Debaisieux : I wanted to ask you where you’re from and how you got to Brussels?
Chaeyeon Lee : I am from South Korea. I grew up in a city called Daegu until I was 18 years old. Then I went to Seoul to do a Bachelor’s degree in music and I graduated in 2009.
SD: Did you go to a jazz school?
CL: The department is called ‘Applied Music’. There were classes for Jazz, Pop, and Rock music depending on the instrument. Most of the teachers had studied in Boston, at the Berklee Global Jazz Institute. Korea’s youth curriculum is aimed at college entrance exams. So I had to decide on a career path in my late teens. At that time, my piano teacher recommended that I go to a music college, and I chose the piano, which I had been playing for a relatively long time.
SD: Why did you start playing the piano?
CL: There is a strong social pressure for everything that you do in South Korea. Actually, I chose to play the piano because I didn’t really like it ! I believed that then I would have less desire to do well and thus be less stressed.
SD: It was like an escape from the daily stress of being able to do something that people expect you to do well?
CL: Yes, that’s right! But I realized It doesn’t work like that at all (laughs) ! I was accepted to a popular university, but I had a lot of trouble studying music during 3 years. In the end, the last year was fun. However, after graduating, I felt like I was not the professional musician I thought I would be and I lost motivation. Looking back, I don’t think I had anyone to talk to about the music I wanted to do and I didn’t really know what I needed. So I stopped playing music for six years right after I graduated. At some point, I wanted to do something else in art. But I didn’t feel at ease. So I decided to start playing music again, and my friend suggested me to go to the Netherlands to study there.
SD: They have a good scene, good teachers over there.
CL: Yes, It’s a country with a good reputation for studying jazz. The other good points are cheap tuition fees and teaching in English. It is less expensive than America or England. So I started studying English.
SD: Did you have to take an English test?
CL: Yes, but the most of Netherlands conservatories were very flexible and not too strict about the English test. So if you play well, they usually accepted you. Some friends helped me with the paper work. I arrived in the Maastricht in 2016 to start again a Bachelor degree.
SD: So you were accepted at the school, and you did all the paperwork to get the visa. Did everything go smoothly?
CL: At first, I was only studying English to leave the country. But it was not enough. So I hired an agency to help me draw up the visa documents and make contact with the school. I paid them for this. Everything went smoothly. But after arriving in the Netherlands, there were still some paperwork tasks remaining, which I had to handle on my own.
SD: How long did you stay in Maastricht?
CL: Five years.
SD: Did you do a bachelor’s degree?
CL: Yes, And after getting my bachelor’s degree, I stayed there for an extra year due to COVID-19. Those four years were a great time to take my time and start anew.
SD: Did you leave Korea because there was no opportunity for you? Or you didn’t feel comfortable there and wanted to leave? Or was it because your friend suggested you to go to the Netherlands ?
CL: Everything. In general, the jazz scene there is not diverse, and it is difficult to find a music scene of various styles. If there was one, it was either a place where everyone performed for free, or the number of audiences was so small that I could count it on one hand. Korea is also a very capitalist and competitive country, and it made me uncomfortable every day. I felt very helpless about it all. Then a friend recommended that I leave Korea.
SD: OK. You studied in Maastricht for five years and then moved straight to Brussels?
CL: Yes. Many people that I knew from Maastricht moved to Brussels : Louise Van Den Heuvel, Andre Breidlid, Daniel Jonkers, Joos Vandueren, Vanessa Diaz Gil, Leonard Steigerwald, and many more.
SD: So a lot of people who studied in Maastricht came to live in Brussels ?
CL: Yes, it’s really fun, a lot of people with a really nice vibe moved to Brussels after graduating from Maastricht. I also used to visit Brussels with Ee (my boyfriend) to rehearse with Louise and Andre. Ee and I always felt comfortable in Brussels because of the good vibes ! But there was another reason why I chose Brussels. In the beginning, KCB [flemish conservatory of Brussels] was not an option, because there are no scholarships to study in Belgium. However, during the 2019-2020 pandemic, the Maastricht Conservatory changed some of its rules for non-European students without notice. At the time, I was planning a master’s program with composition teachers. But they suddenly changed the rule and they told me too late that I had to register again for it. Before, it was automatic when you finished your bachelor. But not anymore for non-Europeans, and they didn’t tell us.
SD: Wow.
CL: Yes, it was really horrible. Even the teachers didn’t know, so everyone was furious. By this time, all the other conservatories in Europe had already completed their entrance exams. So there was no school for me to apply to…
SD: So you didn’t know how to stay there? I assume you had a student visa, so you couldn’t keep it if you didn’t study anymore?
CL: There was a way to stay another year. Once I graduated, I could get a work visa for one more year, called a job searching visa. I wanted to keep studying, but as I told you, even though we loved Brussels, it was not really an option in the beginning, because there are no scholarships for tuition fees.
SD: How much do non-Europeans have to pay to study at the KCB?
CL: Around €8,000 per year for tuition fees. However, more, to receive a visa, non-EU students had to prove they had enough money to live on. So the less complicated way is to pay one year’s living expenses as a deposit. That’s about €9,000 per year. So the total amount of money we have to prepare at the beginning of the school year is approximately €17,000. And it’s increasing every year… For a lot of people, it’s really difficult.
SD : Yes, it’s a lot of money… Finally, did you take the entrance exam for Brussels?
CL: Yes. At that time, conservatories in Germany and the Netherlands were changing their entrance exam period from April-May to January. But KCB is the only one in Europe not to have changed the period ! So we decided to go there. Because of the pandemic, I applied via video, but it was very stressful. Later, when my friends around me received notification of their acceptance, I was devastated, thinking that I had been eliminated without receiving any notification! But in fact, it was a mistake from the KCB. I’d been accepted and they hadn’t sent me confirmation! Also, they forgot to send me an admission certification which was an important document for the visa. Because of this, my admission was postponed for a year due to visa issues… It ended in a good way, as I didn’t really feel like moving to a new school during the pandemic, and I could stay one year in Maastricht with my job searching visa.
SD: What year did you move to Brussels ?
CL: I arrived at the KCB in 2021.
SD: Was it easy for you to make contacts? Inside the conservatory, and outside? Was it easy to meet musicians in the city?
CL: When I first arrived at school, it was really difficult to know which classes I would have, when it started, and some other practical informations. But then I was able to make friends quickly. At first, I attended a lot of jam sessions and got to know more people outside of school. When I arrived in September 2021, it felt like the pandemic was over, and with many live venues reopening, I really enjoyed the feeling of being part of a music festival throughout Brussels for a month! Everyone seemed eager to have fun together. Maybe that’s why I received a few session requests from great musicians. It felt like the first time I was welcomed by such a diverse group of people in the music scene.
SD: Everyone was enthusiastic! And did you meet anyone at the jam sessions?
CL: I met you ! And Basile, Oscar, Pierre, Pierre, another Pierre… (laughs) I feel I met a lot of people !
SD: Playing in jam sessions is a good way to meet other musicians, isn’t it?
CL: Yes. I didn’t know anyone other than my friends from Maastricht. But the other musicians quickly spotted the new face and immediately greeted me first. They were very friendly. And more people than expected asked me to play together. I’m usually very shy and hate being the center of attention. But this was something different. So I had a very positive impression of Brussels!
SD: Back then, you were already a professional musician? Did you already have a few gigs?
CL: Not really much. Just as gigs were just starting to become a little more frequent in my project or collaboration, the pandemic hit and everything stopped. However, less than a year after coming to Brussels, I was contacted by Andre, a friend I met in Maastricht, and I started playing in Brussels as a replacement for the keyboardist of “Kau” trio and later played synthesizer and electronic instruments in “Bodies” and “Askip”. In this aspect, people in Brussels seem to have very open minds to new individuals, which I find really special. It’s not usual in big cities.
SD: We’re talking about Brussels now, but what do you think of the rest of Belgium? Do you ever go to other cities? Gent, Antwerp, Liège, etc.?
CL: I have been to Gent, Antwerp and Liege. I don’t know much about Antwerp and Liege because I only stayed there briefly. But most of the Liege friends I know are very funny and friendly. Among those cities, I think I’ve been to Gent the most. Speaking from my short experience, The Flanders part looks very similar to the Netherlands to me. They seem to have more budget to support art and culture.
SD: Have you ever played outside Brussels, in Flanders or Wallonia?
CL: I’ve played in the Netherlands or Germany, but that’s another country… But Ee played in Gent, Leuven and Antwerp. He said there were great atmosphere there. Once he played in a very small club, it was an old crowd, and they really had a passion for supporting music, they were really into it. Ee especially likes Gent very much. He said that the atmosphere of the audience was very passionate every time he performed. I feel in Europe that jazz is like « pop » for the older generation. So they’re still really curious. In the Netherlands, I had the same feeling. There were quite a few older people, who were very supportive. Young people are more interested in trendy music, groovy stuff, or sometimes experimental, but when they have to pay, they don’t come to the concerts (laughs).
SD: It’s true! I wanted to ask you: have you ever felt any form of racism or exclusion because of your origins in the music scene? By other musicians, or programmers, for example ?
CL: Not yet. But it might be different if I start my own project I guess. According to Ee’s experience, when he wants to play with his project, most of the venues don’t reply to his emails. But I have seen that Ee is usually contacted by people who have seen him play and liked it, or have heard about him from his teachers.
SD: So he gets help from his teachers?
CL: Yes, we think so !
SD: That’s really cool! So, for you, being in Brussels is rather positive? Do you feel that people are interested in your work and your music?
CL: Yes. Compared to Korea, the diverse music scene here is completely utopian. Before I came to Brussels, I really loved acoustic sounds and mainly played acoustic piano. But as it happened, I mainly work with electronic instruments in Brussels nowadays. So I’ve seen people be surprised a few times when I only play acoustic. No matter what I do, I feel listened to. There are days when I get the impression that I am not a performer that many musicians can relate to. But even then, there were many times when someone would come and tell me that they liked my playing and approach and told me to keep doing my things. It means a lot to me !
SD : So, have you finished to conservatory, or not yet ?
CL : Not yet, it is my last year. I studied here for three years.
SD: Do you already have a vision of what you’re going to do next? Is it going to be difficult to stay in Belgium? Do you want to stay?
CL: I want to stay in Brussels. But as you heard, it’s very difficult. So I looked into the visa. Brussels is the capital of the European Union but they don’t have visas for artists. It’s really weird. But in Germany and Holland they do.
SD: Really? I didn’t know that. So you can stay there if you can prove that…
CL: If you make enough money to pay taxes.
SD: As an artist?
CL: It doesn’t matter if you are an artist or not. In the case of Germany, if you apply for an artist visa and earn a certain amount of income as an artist within the period of your visa stay, you can continue to extend it. I don’t know the details exactly. But I heard this information from Korean artists who are in the process. I know that the Netherlands also has an artist visa. Apart from that, registering as self-employed is very easy in the Netherlands. It seems harder to do that in Belgium. In the Netherlands and Germany, the process is still not easy. But most people have a vision of what they need to focus on. This is not the case in Belgium, so it is really difficult to know what I should do.
SD: So there’s no artist’s visa, and the easiest way to stay is to marry a European or to get a permanent job…
CL : As you know, there aren’t many opportunities for full-time work as an artist, especially for non-Europeans. And if you get married to a European person, the partner will in most of the cases need to prove their income over a certain period. So for artist couples, it’s even harder.
SD: So now you don’t know how you’re going to stay?
CL: Not really, unless I continue to study.
SD: If you finish this year, you’ll get an extra year of visa because you’ll graduate?
CL: Indeed. But I’m not sure I will be able to pay enough taxes for a year after graduation. So I don’t know if I have a vision. In my case, I wanted to do film music. So, there is a possibility to keep studying at KCB for 1 year for a bachelor’s degree in composition and 2 years for the film music curriculum. However, it takes a lot of time and money, and even this does not guarantee a reliable future.
SD: All the people I’ve asked have the same difficulties as non Europeans… It’s really crazy.
CL : I take it so much for granted that I’m very grateful that you’re thinking about it. There are slightly different cases. In some European countries, the universities don’t force the students to graduate. So it is possible to remain a student for a very long time. A friend of mine did that in Berlin. Originally, I thought it was only in Germany, but my Portuguese friend told me that if Ee finishes his military service and enrolls in a Portuguese school, he could easily stay longer in Europe.
SD: So Ee is now in Korea?
CL: No, not yet. After graduating with his master’s degree this year, He has to return to Korea to do his military service.
SD: Wow. Is that mandatory for everyone?
CL: No. Only for men under 27 years of age.
SD: Ok, I didn’t know that… And do you ever want to go back to Korea?
CL: I’ve never considered returning to Korea, except to see my family very rarely.
SD: I have one more question: what would be the most urgent thing to change to welcome foreign musicians to Brussels or Belgium?
CL: Tuition subsidies and visas are the most urgent needs !
SD : If Belgium had the same scholarship system as the Netherlands or Germany, would that be good?
CL: It would be much better! I am willing to study composition, and there are many other things I want to study in the future. Because there are departments here that don’t exist in Korea. Therefore, if tuition fees were the same for non-EU students as for EU students, it would allow time to try different things and build a career in music, step by step. And to learn the languages too. Because of the uncertainty about visas, it’s unclear whether I should study French or Dutch. If I have time, I think I could try both one by one.
SD : Yes! I think we’re almost there. Is there anything else you’d like to talk about?
CL: The utopia in my head is for people from all over the world to interact with each other in a place where they want to live. But I don’t think that will happen anytime soon… When I went to Portugal 14 years ago, I felt a deep sense of welcome that I can’t explain. It was my first time traveling alone outside of Korea. There were no smartphones at the time. So I had to look at a paper map or just walk a lot. I got lost many times (laughs) ! I recently went to Lisbon, and I still felt a very nice vibe. But a lot has changed, and I can imagine that if I were Portuguese, there would be a lot of difficulties. But this seems similar to what I think of Korea as a Korean. I often think that if we could freely exchange countries, we could better protect and develop the beautiful parts of that country that we can see with our foreigners eyes.
SD: And music helps, doesn’t it? As a musician, I’m grateful to play music because I can travel anywhere in the world and be able to share something with people and get something from the place i’m going to. Even if I don’t speak the language.
CL: Yes! That’s a huge part! Even though I couldn’t speak a word of English, I can attest to how many enjoyable experiences I had here. When I was first asked to start a band, I could barely say anything other than ‘Yes”, “no” or “How about this?” But we really had fun working on it. I think that’s really the greatness of art! A method of communication that transcends language, age, and culture!
SD: Very good! I think we already talked quite a lot! Thank you very much!
CL: Thank you to you more!